COLT PYTHON IS BACK!!!!

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Re: COLT PYTHON IS BACK!!!!

Post by Mirok » 20 Mar 2020, 16:52

jolly wrote:
Onty wrote: Imaš li podatak s kakvog "resta" je pucano?
Pise ispod tablice "Champion shooting rest"
A zanimljivo je i da jedno punjenje u 38 sp, "Super Vel", daje brzinu vecu nego ostali u 357 mag.
To bi moralo biti puno lakše zrno ?

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Re: COLT PYTHON IS BACK!!!!

Post by jolly » 20 Mar 2020, 17:01

https://www.handgunsmag.com/editorial/t ... mmo/137747

Some used normal-weight bullets, but the real performers were the .38/.357, the 9mm and the .45, all of which used bullets lighter than customary.

The .38 and .357 loads, for example, both employed 110-grain bullets. The speeds the company achieved were way beyond any other ammo being produced at the time by other makers. (Super Vel allegedly also manufactured slower ammo from a facility in Greensburg, Indiana.)


Drugo je pitanje oce li to neko uvesti u HR, u neki ducan...? :A00:
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Re: COLT PYTHON IS BACK!!!!

Post by Onty » 20 Mar 2020, 18:16

jolly wrote:
Onty wrote: Imaš li podatak s kakvog "resta" je pucano?
Pise ispod tablice "Champion shooting rest"
A zanimljivo je i da jedno punjenje u 38 sp, "Super Vel", daje brzinu vecu nego ostali u 357 mag.
Pretpostavljam ovaj http://www.championtarget.com/shooting_ ... tance.aspx . Mislim da je Ransom Rest (ili sličan) ipak jedini mjerodavan, nema utjecaja sposobnost strijelca.

Također, to što su koristili jedan naboj 38 Special u revolveru za 357 Magnum, i to onaj s kuglom 90 graina (nisam imao pojma da netko koristi tako nešto lagano), više mi izgleda kao "ajde da vidimo što će biti", nego ozbiljno testiranje. Zato i je rasipanje 3 inch.

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Re: COLT PYTHON IS BACK!!!!

Post by jolly » 20 Mar 2020, 18:48

Nije precinzost jedina mjera oruzja ili metka. U ovom slucaju, lagani 38 je napravljen radi velike brzine i expanzije (samoobrana).
Za tu svrhu zadovoljavajuce.

A za rest, ne znam sto reci.
Ja sam prosao fazu vjerovanja u rest, kao necem bezgresnom i ultimativnom za dokazivanje preciznosti.
Dobar, mekan, naslon, OK, da treba, a nesto vise od toga... skeptican sam, recimo to tako.
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Re: COLT PYTHON IS BACK!!!!

Post by Onty » 21 Mar 2020, 02:33

jolly wrote:Nije precinzost jedina mjera oruzja ili metka. U ovom slucaju, lagani 38 je napravljen radi velike brzine i expanzije (samoobrana).
Za tu svrhu zadovoljavajuce.

A za rest, ne znam sto reci.
Ja sam prosao fazu vjerovanja u rest, kao necem bezgresnom i ultimativnom za dokazivanje preciznosti.
Dobar, mekan, naslon, OK, da treba, a nesto vise od toga... skeptican sam, recimo to tako.
Ako govorimo o testiranju do 357 revolvera, posebno 6" Pythona, S&W 686 ili GP100, možda. Ako je u pitanju 44 Magnum ili nešto teže, kad nakon nekoliko desetaka naboja "mravi krenu kroz šaku", ne ide daleko, barem ne meni.

Također, ako revolver ima bubanj koji prima 6 ili 7 naboja, želim vidjeti pogotke iz svih komora, a ne samo 5, kao što se najčešće radi.

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Re: COLT PYTHON IS BACK!!!!

Post by lex-lutor » 21 Mar 2020, 17:51

Onty wrote:................. želim vidjeti pogotke iz svih komora, a ne samo 5, kao što se najčešće radi.
Hoces reci da ljudi UVIJEK pucaju iz ISTIH 5 komora ???? Znam da je bilo pacijenata koji su pucali metak po metak ali uvijek iz ISTE komore :-)
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Re: COLT PYTHON IS BACK!!!!

Post by lex-lutor » 21 Mar 2020, 17:55

jolly wrote:...A zanimljivo je i da jedno punjenje u 38 sp, "Super Vel", daje brzinu vecu nego ostali u 357 mag.
Treba to sve uzeti sa rezervom, kao prvo cemu pucati kracu cahuru iz lezista 357-ce te dodatno prljati dio komore koji se inace ne prlja, ako se napuni 357 na HOT-load svi ove "marketing" fore padaju u vodu !
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Re: COLT PYTHON IS BACK!!!!

Post by jolly » 21 Mar 2020, 18:43

lex-lutor wrote:
jolly wrote:...A zanimljivo je i da jedno punjenje u 38 sp, "Super Vel", daje brzinu vecu nego ostali u 357 mag.
Treba to sve uzeti sa rezervom, kao prvo cemu pucati kracu cahuru iz lezista 357-ce te dodatno prljati dio komore koji se inace ne prlja, ako se napuni 357 na HOT-load svi ove "marketing" fore padaju u vodu !
pa u ovom slucaju zato sto je to vjerojatno izmisljeno za 38 special, a moze se koristiti u 357, naravno. testiranje...
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Re: COLT PYTHON IS BACK!!!!

Post by Onty » 22 Mar 2020, 10:47

lex-lutor wrote:Hoces reci da ljudi UVIJEK pucaju iz ISTIH 5 komora ???? Znam da je bilo pacijenata koji su pucali metak po metak ali uvijek iz ISTE komore :-)
Koliko znam, streljački standard je 5. Zato npr. Walther GSP ima samo 5 naboja https://www.carl-walther.com/products/s ... 59077.html .

"Priča" se da maheri najprvo pucaju iz svih komora (ako ih je 6 ili više), izaberu 5 najboljih, pa samo njih koriste. Tako rezultati ispadnu povoljniji nego bi bili da se puca iz svih 6 ležišta. Također, "priča" se i to da gotovo svi magazini to rade kako ne bi lošijim rezultatima naljutili firme koje kod njih reklamiraju. Ipak, naletim koji put na članak gdje su autori naglasili da su koristili sve komore, što je za svaku pohvalu.

A to, da ima "mahera" koji koriste jednu te istu komoru, svašta je moguće kad su slava i lova u pitanju.

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Re: COLT PYTHON IS BACK!!!!

Post by jolly » 22 Mar 2020, 11:39

internetski mitovi i legende.
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Re: COLT PYTHON IS BACK!!!!

Post by istra champion » 22 Mar 2020, 11:59

Za 25 m streljačke discipline po ISSF pravilima puca se u serijama po 5 metaka, a kapacitet spremnika ovisi o konstrukciji pištolja. Neki sportski mk pištolji imaju kapacitet spremnika za 5, 6 ili za 10 kom.
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Re: COLT PYTHON IS BACK!!!!

Post by istra champion » 22 Mar 2020, 12:09

Nemoguće je na sportskom revolveru od 6 ili više komora odabrati 5 najboljih tj.viditi razliku na meti...
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Re: COLT PYTHON IS BACK!!!!

Post by jolly » 22 Mar 2020, 12:54

Nakon vise tisuca ispaljenih metaka iz revolvera, na treninzima ili natjecanjima, slazem se sa obadvije tvrdje od istra championa!!!
Ovo ukljucuje i proba sa resta.
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Re: COLT PYTHON IS BACK!!!!

Post by istra champion » 22 Mar 2020, 13:37

Sportski revolveri Manurhin se testiraju sa 6 metaka na 25m, a garantirana grupa pogodaka je do 20mm. Imao sam Manurhin MR73 SPORT i MR38 MATCH, a ovaj zadnji je imao grupu od 11mm.
Najbolji, nakvalitetniji i najprecizniji sportski revolveri današnjice u cal.38/.357 su Manurhin dok je S&W K-14 idealan u omjeru cijene i kvalitete (preciznosti).
Inače S&W revolvere se može doraditi-prilagoditi za sportsko streljaštvo: smanjiti silu okidanja zamjenom opruge, ugraditi širi okidač i udarač (target), zamijeniti zadnji ciljnik sa LPA ili Millet i ugraditi K-nill ili Traush sportske drške dok za Coltove revolvere nema takvih mogućnosti (osim drški).
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Re: COLT PYTHON IS BACK!!!!

Post by Onty » 22 Mar 2020, 16:38

istra champion wrote:Nemoguće je na sportskom revolveru od 6 ili više komora odabrati 5 najboljih tj.viditi razliku na meti...
"Marking Bad Chamber On Rear Of Cylinder?" http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthr ... n-Revolver

Post #9

"Silhouette shooters load only five shots in their revolvers, and with six-shooters they usually spend some time checking groups from chambers. The catch is, IHMSA does not allow modifications to production firearms, so obvious markings are illegal. Usually, if you inspect the cylinder carefully you will find a factory stamping or some minor flaw that you can use to blueprint the chambers. You know which direction the cylinder rotates, so call the chamber that follows the mark # 1, and go from there. My Dan Wesson .41 has one chamber that centers its group at a noticeably different place than the other five, so even though it is one of the better grouping chambers, it is the one I leave out. I have a speed loader that I mark with a white line that corresponds to the indexing flaw that I use. I have a foam earplug in the hole corresponding to the chamber that is not used."

"Numbering revolver chambers" https://www.bullseyeforum.net/t7788-num ... r-chambers

Re: Numbering revolver chambers

Post by CR10X on 6/15/2017, 1:32 pm
Not that I'm an expert on gunsmithing revolvers or anything, but when Jerry Keefer tuned up my .38 years ago, among other things I got back was a test target with individual groups from each of the six cylinders and a group using all cylinders. All the cylinders were numbered and one was marked for slow fire. I shot it just like Jerry marked it, using the marked cylinder for slow fire and used the other 5 for timed and rapid. I figured if Jerry did it, there must be a good reason. Yea, I did eventually get DR.

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Re: COLT PYTHON IS BACK!!!!

Post by Onty » 22 Mar 2020, 17:04

istra champion wrote:Sportski revolveri Manurhin se testiraju sa 6 metaka na 25m, a garantirana grupa pogodaka je do 20mm. Imao sam Manurhin MR73 SPORT i MR38 MATCH, a ovaj zadnji je imao grupu od 11mm.
Najbolji, nakvalitetniji i najprecizniji sportski revolveri današnjice u cal.38/.357 su Manurhin dok je S&W K-14 idealan u omjeru cijene i kvalitete (preciznosti).
A nije ni S&W 26/629 Classic DX za baciti:

Smith & Wesson DX Series

by Wiley Clapp - Friday, August 13, 2010

If your version of the gun wears the barrel marking of “Classic DX,” you have one of the better revolvers that ever left the plant in modern times. Depending on what kind of wear is on the gun, the accuracy potential may be as good as it ever was. I once did a very detailed evaluation of several samples of these outstanding guns. At 25 yards, they were all capable of delivering tight one-hole groups with at least one good commercial load and at 50, they never seemed to run outside of the 1.5-inch mark. This means a theoretical group of 3 inches at 100 yards and 6 inches at 200.

https://www.americanrifleman.org/articl ... dx-series/
Inače S&W revolvere se može doraditi-prilagoditi za sportsko streljaštvo: smanjiti silu okidanja zamjenom opruge, ugraditi širi okidač i udarač (target), zamijeniti zadnji ciljnik sa LPA ili Millet i ugraditi K-nill ili Traush sportske drške dok za Coltove revolvere nema takvih mogućnosti (osim drški).
Imaš 586/686 Target Champion, taj bi mi bio sve što trebam.

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Re: COLT PYTHON IS BACK!!!!

Post by istra champion » 22 Mar 2020, 18:16

Onty wrote:Imaš 586/686 Target Champion, taj bi mi bio sve što trebam.
Tako sam i ja mislio...koristio sam ga jednu sezonu pa sam prešao na 686 magnum plus pa na 686 target internacional pa na k-14 pa na manurhine pa na Sauer SR3 Trophy i onda pauza od 6 god. Sada sam opet na 2x K-14, a za vježbu i K-17.
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Re: COLT PYTHON IS BACK!!!!

Post by jolly » 22 Mar 2020, 18:19

@Istra
Sauer sr3 kakav se pokazao? velicina grupe?
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Re: COLT PYTHON IS BACK!!!!

Post by istra champion » 22 Mar 2020, 18:26

Po preciznosti u rangu MR38, ZKR i K-14.
Jedino se meni desio peh :!: budući da si sam dorađujem oružje te sam uputio mail u sig sauer ako imaju neki rezervni dio, a odgovor je bio da su zalihe dijelova potrošili prije 30 godina...zato sam odustao od takvih egzotičnih ali dobrih revolvera.
Samo S&W :A19:
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Re: COLT PYTHON IS BACK!!!!

Post by Onty » 22 Mar 2020, 19:30

jolly wrote:
lex-lutor wrote:
jolly wrote:...A zanimljivo je i da jedno punjenje u 38 sp, "Super Vel", daje brzinu vecu nego ostali u 357 mag.
Treba to sve uzeti sa rezervom, kao prvo cemu pucati kracu cahuru iz lezista 357-ce te dodatno prljati dio komore koji se inace ne prlja, ako se napuni 357 na HOT-load svi ove "marketing" fore padaju u vodu !
pa u ovom slucaju zato sto je to vjerojatno izmisljeno za 38 special, a moze se koristiti u 357, naravno. testiranje...
Nisam imao nikad 38 Special, samo 357. Pucao sam koristeći samo 357 čahure.

Evo "recepta" za 357 Magnum koji su mi dali stari mačci, i pokazao se jako dobrim u skoro svim revolverima. Imajte u vidu da smo pucali na siluete (pola veličine, 25, 50, 75 i 100 m), tako da nam kugle SWC, TC ili RN nisu pravile bitnu razliku. WC nismo nikad koristili, navodno su neupotrebive na veće daljine.

UPOZORENJE: DOLJE NAVEDENE PODATKE KORISTITE NA VLASTITU ODGOVORNOST!!!

Čahura: Starline 357 Magnum
Kugla: 158 graina (olovo za balansiranje kotača, bez “kaljenja”), mi smo najviše koristili SAECO #398, 158 grain TC, https://www.redding-reloading.com/onlin ... let-moulds
Barut: Bullseye, 5.2 grains, NE GRAMA (OPREZNO krenuti od 4.9 grains i postupno povećavati)
Kapisla: Winchester SP

Kao referencu uzmite priručnik Lyman Reloading Handbook 48th Edition, kugla #358311, 160 grains, stranica 338:

http://marvinstuart.com/firearm/Manuals ... %20ocr.pdf

Ovdje će te naći još priručnika za punjenje:

http://marvinstuart.com/firearm/Manuals ... 20Manuals/

Guštajte...

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